06 – Circlemakers: Interview to Rob Irving (a documentary by Matthew Williams)

06 - Circlemakers: Interview to Rob Irving (a documentary by Matthew Williams)



This interview is part of a documentary by Matthew Williams:

The whole documentary (3 hours) has been transcribed into english and translated into italian by Francesco Grassi and other collaborators.
You can listen to the interview switching on the english or italian subtitles.

Francesco Grassi is the author of a new book about crop circles.
Here you can see the booktrailer and other details:

To buy the book, please email Francesco Grassi:
[email protected]

The song of the booktrailer “Painting circles in the corn” has been written by Jim Chorley. Jim is the son of Dave Chorley who started making circles with Doug Bower around 1978 so creating the crop circle phenomenon. This song is dedicated to his father Dave who left us in 1996. The album is “All in good time”:

Italian notes
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Per acquistare il libro scrivete un’email a Francesco Grassi:
[email protected]

Il portale dell’autore è:

Titolo del libro:
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Cerchi nel grano: Tracce d’intelligenza
UFO, Alieni e Incontri Ravvicinati del 2° Tipo
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Dal retro di copertina:
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I cerchi nel grano sono sicuramente un fenomeno incredibile. Chi lo segue in maniera superficiale oppure non è molto addentro non può riuscire a comprenderne le mille sfaccettature e i paradossi logici che esso continua a proporci fin dalle prime formazioni documentate intorno al 1980.
Arte o burle, believer o circlemaker: c’è veramente un confine fra gli elementi in gioco? E se sì, qual è? In un perverso gioco circolare, ciò che può essere chiaro se osservato di notte, col chiarore del giorno invece diventa molto oscuro. Ma allora è possibile dipanare in qualche modo questa matassa di corda così ingarbugliata?
Forse, ma farlo non dipende da altri perché lo strumento principale è nelle vostre mani, in questo momento.
Tutto ha inizio con un UFO, l’anno è il 1966.
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Descrizione del libro:
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Formato 15×21, interamente a colori per un totale di 530 pagine con più di 170 fotografie, immagini e disegni. Nel libro l’autore spiega fra le altre cose, l’arte e i trucchi del circlemaking (come si fanno i cerchi nel grano) raccontando inoltre come creare opere ritenute impossibili. Ad esempio la famosissima formazione di Milk Hill del 2001.
Il libro contiene tutta la corretta ricostruzione e visione storica del fenomeno con fotografie e documenti inediti, fonti storiche, indagini scientifiche, 3 ore di interviste a circlemaker trascritte (le interviste video con sottotitoli in inglese e italiano saranno disponibili gratuitamente sul canale YouTube dell’autore), esercizi per aspiranti circlemaker nonché il capitolo finale in cui viene raccontato nei minimi dettagli l’intervento dell’autore al Convegno di Volterra del CICAP dal 5 al 7 ottobre 2012.

Edizioni STES

Collana Red Pills of Mystery

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La canzone del booktrailer “Painting circles in the corn” è scritta e interpretata da Jim Chorley. Jim è figlio di Dave Chorley, il mitico Dave che insieme a Doug Bower dette vita alla storia dei cerchi. La canzone è dedicata al padre Dave venuto a mancare nel 1996. L’album da cui la canzone è tratta si chiama “All in good time”:

Le splendide tavole presenti nel booktrailer e nel libro sono state appositamente disegnate da Paolo Vallerga e Giacomo Rinaldi:

Video editing di Marco Morocutti:

well the word hoaxes is is a bit of a misnomer hoax implies somebody wanting to go out and deceive to other people deceive other people and I don't think that it's I think it's misused in that context the thing is we we have we've set up this black and white thing where where you see the hoax tour it's genuine and if it's genuine that implies it's some sort of unknown force aliens or or some some aspects of the invisible world and if it's not that then it's hoaxed and i think that's a completely wrong language to use so I don't think I've ever really hoaxed I've made I've made crops but I've never really hoaxed originally my interest was in finding out who was making circles I I decided that it was most probably people so in the process of finding out who it was involved hanging around in a lot of wheat fields and it it it seemed sensible at the time to try it oneself hmm so I once once that stage had been gotten over it became quite compulsive but it became more more to do with the creative compulsion well they require trouble they the the the size and designs you you choose to make require trouble they take a lot of effort and that's the effort that needs to be put into it I in a very arbitrary so very arbitrary way I tend to regard the the products of people who don't go to the same trouble as as hoaxes I tend to be dismissive of that word but the people who do go to that a button and take that trouble to me they're there they're the the product they come up with is a genuine product in the same way as a painting would be if you if somebody had gone to a lot of trouble creating a painting there would be no question of its authenticity or that he would have some respect for it and as the language we're using is genuine or fake or hoax then to me that's that's genuine and there's no question of it it's it's a better answer would be well conscientiousness that's why we go to all that trouble because it requires trouble because it inspires people it because it's the nature of creativity it requires to be done in the same way as anybody anybody creating anything is required to be done and some people are prepared to do it and some people perhaps aren't well ask me it again I insist because it's required to be done of course I think the world would be a better place if the circle makers made a bit – – but but there again they do and you know it doesn't know doesn't anger me at all well the thing is there's no joke being played it's it's as far as we're concerned we're creating new new aspects of the same thing yes it in the same way as you I mean somebody somebody said once the that an artist paints the same painting over and over again writes the same book over and over again and sure you're you're making circles over and over again but you're not really making the same designs yeah it just it just needs to be done every year well well I guess it doesn't really but but but some might think it does because it's it's good that it does it's it's it's beneficial that it does to admirers of the landscape that's me why the sky is blue grant because it's required it's required that it's blue am i perpetuating a myth yes but it's not my myth it's other people's myth so so to me I'm perpetuating something else you know I mean you might ask if it is it important that there's a mystery that would be a very interesting question to ask and yes it is important because because of the the values and the meanings people place on these things they decide that it's rubbish if it's man-made and it's brilliant if it's genuine so mystery does play a fairly crucial element in how it's valued the I hate to live in a world where there was no mystery I would suggest that there was some somewhere if someone said there wasn't phantom hitchhiking you know people who are seen on the side of roads and later reported Hispanic MIB visitations I mean I you know I've been described as that you know purely from existing somewhere you know how your scene I've been sitting at home watching telly in London and have been seen in wheelchair as this somehow paranormal phenomenon so so there is this tendency of people to contribute to other people's expectations which which is a side of the paranormal which needs to be looked at do I do I write and have credits for my writing yes what I mean and do I insist upon a credit for my photographs of course but do I crave publicity no I don't think I would say no I circlemakers tend to shy away from publicity being a retired circle maker I feel immune from any such questions I mean I have no control over whether people pull the wool over their eyes or not I certainly wouldn't I don't relate to the question right I'm used to seeing them do it no I don't enjoy I find it kind of boring a lot of the time I don't really I can't say that I enjoy it I mean we live in a world where you know internet access and everything and I I'm on the internet and I read about this and that and not sometimes it involves me and and I don't go away thinking oh I've enjoyed that I kind of think the word sheesh a lot an internet thinking God you know so no I don't enjoy it I tend to sort of get quite disgusted by it because it's not the phenomenon isn't owned by anybody so I can't control what other people what meanings and values other people place on it so so so just because people say that it's made by aliens it's not my fault they think it's made by aliens you know so I'm not controlling it and all I'm doing is giving people the opportunity to see I guess to think what they like you know I was the risk of being prosecuted and being caught for trespass worth it wasn't it was never really a risk to be frank I mean there was never really a risk of being caught I mean there were a lot of threats made but but there was never any risk I mean obviously if played percentages you didn't you didn't put yourself in a risk situation if you saw somebody walking into a field you'd make off the other way I mean there was no risk about this you can't you can't keep pressing home the same point I mean that lasts maybe a month or two months and you realize that people aren't going to actually that the key to all this is that people aren't actually looking for answers they're not interested in answers and once you realize that they're interested in a sort of a social habit you know if there was an answer then they wouldn't be able to come – it would be no reason to come to the barge every year you know so once you've got the gist of that then then it becomes something else and you wallow around for a little while and then it becomes art you think ah Charles SAR cheese into this stuff yes that's that's a good way of looking at it it's art and III wholeheartedly believe now that it is art it fits the complete criteria of of art in the sense that artists is supposed to fill people with experience and people are supposed to get an experience of what their their observing or looking at or or being in and yes it fits that criteria perfectly so yes one becomes an artist and it's brilliant I have absolutely no right or I'll give you another answer I have every right in the world I'm decided which one year besides of threatening mail the physical threats the abuse no not no no no not much trouble be that the damage to cars the the hassle you know they all seem to phone up when I'm watching a good football match apart from that no trouble at all the the the most common which I've also experienced a bright bright flashes of light in the in the direct vicinity of your activities the other ones have been mental more mental I thought I've made a circle and I've made an avenue and then I'm down at the bottom of the Avenue and and as I'm making my way up back up the Avenue I think what if there's a devil sitting in the circle you know and I'll start doing my head in a little bit and I'll get there and there isn't one so so I realized well maybe that's why sit people see Devils you know oh oh well that's something interesting to think about over par from that no occasional meteor odd meteorological anomalies I would say bright flashes or a bit of a mystery there talked about amongst circle makers in pubs over beer let's make a circle a couple of people large pictogram 400 footer one and a half hours and do you feel you can do this in complete darkness full moon makes it very very difficult you'd call something off it's too bright so yeah people would say yeah sure yeah because people eyes are just to the line everyone everyone who lives in the country knows this so a lot of people say possibly do this five hours of dark Nursing well a lot of people say a lot of things but they you know I mean the objects of this exercise with me initially was to try it and once I've tried it you found that a lot of the these statements are not true to people following order I would say lately in the last year or so you've had more than two people working on and I would say often it goes wrong yeah I mean there was a very large formation in this vicinity last year very large probably the largest one you can think of which went wrong and if you look at it from a purely aesthetic point of view didn't go wrong if you look at the photograph if you look at it from the position of being there you can see how it kind of did go wrong most of these jobs are done by 2:00 in the morning and people are at memory service station by 3:00 there's a obvious sense of denial somewhere and I get accused of having a strong sense of denial and that's that explains skepticism the skepticism is denial because these things are true and from my point of view the denial is on the other side I mean evidence has been put forward bla bla bla this that and the other and still seven years later you get people saying well people couldn't do this because and to me that's a sense of denial to me it's all about it's this weird twisted kind of wrangled thing about human potential yeah how how I say yes people can do this people can go out and they can create this thing and there's a bit ok there's they go off in secret and it's dark and there's a big mystery about it and that is to me as humor potential but there's this other side which says that's denial saying that human potential is about communicating with these things and and believing in this kind of invisible world that that no one can kind of quite put their finger on and and there's the there's the line you know who's right I think this is it's very interesting the the line I like looking at the line well I I come here and apparently I do walk it to me I'm just coming in for a drink and Here I am do you feel like being part of the phenomenon is actually helped perpetrated yeah yeah I kept it going for a few years during a sticky period but I mean 91 between 91-94 we're kind of myself and a few others kept it going when it was like there was a feeling during 92 93 that the thing needed to be kept going after the debacle of Doug and Dave and it was a good phenomenon it needed it needed to be continued and then was that a bit of that feeling and looking back I think that's probably true if you do feel like some parts of it are I think they come from somewhere you can't explain I think that if if you assume for a moment that they're all doesn't matter how they get there if they're all say they're all man-made all of them experiencing things and being healed and feeling good that that to me is very very interesting and needs needs investigation science doesn't look at that so even at its basest level if you strip the form if you strip the phenomenon down to nothing you know to complete numbness you know no kind of paranormal reasons that things are appearing the fact that people are interacting with them in a way that they do is I think very interesting very important and and there's a lot to be learned and I would say that that that as it stands is you know sufficiently paranormal so I mean you can you can kind of have me or not have me you know my you know and it's still paranormal I think that's interesting the effect people don't people have got to complete the wrong idea of art I think they think it's something they viewing in terms of objects but it should be viewed in terms of experience if you look at a painting it's not the painting that's got any value it's the experience you get from it which is which is the art it's the value and the meaning mother died because they have this completely false way of placing value on stuff and it's all coming out isn't it about what's fake and why you know it's ridiculous it art is about the experience you get from something so therefore art could be anything in theory anything that you get an experience from and there's nothing greater than a massive formation that even as a bonus symbolism attached to it you know it's in the shape of something but even just a simple circle you know larger the better much as you can manage in a night it's gonna create it's gonna be like this temporary sacred site and you're gonna get more bars than you understand I mean I'm not complete kind of Philistine when it comes to understanding that because they seem to say that they a lot of people will say what what what suits and because I I am I am I embody a threat to them because they're trying to place their own meaning in their own value on something and they are all trying to be important you know you'll notice a lot of people in this industry a lot of the people in this part we're all trying to be it's all about how important they are you know but I'm just proving each other here in disproven arguing rubbish well you're asking you're asking some sort of leading questions I mean there is well I'm interested in questions because because the way you ask them mean something when you say to me why is it that you felt the need I mean you're assuming that I did feel the me well that's not true I didn't I didn't but it's not true because I didn't feel it interesting question yes but but my my publicness isn't down to me it's down to what other people have imposed upon me to me whether they publish I don't write and send anything people ask me to write things yes I mean I mean somebody somebody's just asked me to write the potted history of crop circles for the for a well-known newsstand magazine now you ask me why they ask me I don't know why do they ask me the best story let me think well it was a great one about I don't know the the shootout at the ok wagon and horses I mean that was when there was all this sort of photography about other people I think I think the best one was when the police came around to my house demanding to know information about circle making and and and Jim and I were about to publish a story in the independent magazine about circle makers and we kind of felt that we knew who was this was years and years ago we felt that we we knew who was kind of doing these jobs and that let's slip and the police came around and I had to explain to the police that it was really a it really needs to be sorted out journalistically rather than legally you know it was a police problem it was a journalistic it required some understanding of how some young people were desperately trying to communicate with aliens and there was not really anything not only kind of rule of law about that and there's nothing that they should be troubled with that was a good one and I found up Pusey police station and they said I don't want to get into a philosophical argument about this mr. earthy so that was

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